『국가』 587b–588a 논증 재구성 및 비판

국가 9권에서 소크라테스와 글라우콘은 '참주의 삶은 철학자 왕과 비교했을 때 얼마나 불행한가?'라는 질문을 던집니다. 해당 부분을 재구성하고 어떤 점에서 틀렸는지 재미로 써봤습니다. 억까까지 합쳐서요 :grin:

Socrates and Glaucon address the question: "How much more unpleasant is the tyrant's life compared to the king's?"

:arrow_forward:Argument Reconstruction

P1. According to previous arguments, "the tyrant is at a third remove from the oligarch" in a plane figure.

P2. Similarly, "the oligarch, in turn, is at a third remove from the king" in a plane figure.

C1. Therefore, Socrates concludes that "the tyrant is removed from true pleasure by a numerical value of three times three." (From P1 & P2)

P3. Socrates makes the comparison "on the basis of squares and cubes," since he wants to compare the size of the king's pleasure versus the tyrant's pleasure.

C2. Socrates claims: "The king lives 729 times more pleasantly, while the tyrant suffers the same amount more painfully." This follows from the calculation:

(3x3)^3 = 729.

(From C1 & P3)

:arrow_forward:Refuting Socrates' Conclusion

However, C1 is incorrect, which means C2 is also false. From P1 and P2, we should instead infer that "the tyrant is removed from true pleasure by a numerical value of three plus three, minus one," in a plane figure. This is because:

  1. When calculating distance, we should add, not multiply.
  2. We must subtract one because the oligarch appears twice in the sequence, causing an overlap.

In other words, the tyrant is only five times removed from the king.

Thus, Socrates should have concluded that "the king lives 125 times more pleasantly than the tyrant," since:

5^3=125

:arrow_forward:What Does This Mean?

By refuting socrates' argument, We can know that Socrates and Glaucon are not good at calculation, despite their self-praise: "That's an extraordinary calculation of the difference between the two men the just one and the unjust one in terms of their pleasure and pain!"

By the way, Socrates himself states that "calculation, geometry, and all the preparatory education serve as preparation for dialectic." Moreover, he asserts that dialectic is a prerequiste for being a philosopher, as he says: "Don't you call someone a dialectician when he is able to grasp an account of being of each thing?" Since philosopher is defined as someone who can grasp an account of being of each thing, dialectic is essential to philosophy.

All of this means that socrates is not good at calculation, then he is also not good at dialectic —means that he is neither a philosopher nor a true dialectician. As a result, the truth of the arguments developed through dialectic in Republic as a whole comes into question.

10개의 좋아요

아, 그리스는 거리 세는 법이 우리랑 달라서, king-timocrat-oligarch-democrat-tyrant의 순서라도 king과 oligarch 사이의 거리는 3입니다.

3개의 좋아요

개킹받네여

3개의 좋아요

오늘부터 대논리학 내려놓고 산수익힘책을 펴겠습니다... :sob:

4개의 좋아요

ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 저는 철학자의 꿈 포기하고 진작에 소피스트를 진로로 잡았습니다. :grin:

3개의 좋아요